Greg Toroosian 5:15
every day. But how did you end up in a position to jump into a company like this? You were consulting your special assistant roles. What is it that actually made you jump into this so wholeheartedly?
Emmanuel Straschnov 5:30
It’s a little bit strange, actually. So Joshua, and I decided to partner on our first coffee meeting. So it’s really his idea, right, that embraced pretty quickly. So I guess it’s because he sold it, yeah, exactly. It was a kind of a love at first sight type of thing where we decided to partner on this full time immediately. Obviously, you know, it’s been eight years that I’ve embraced the idea as much as he does now and I consider this as much my view as he is, but he was the one studying it. That what I what I can tell you, why did I chose him I found it appealing is because I think this is one of the biggest problems that the will the business world is facing, you know, the fact that engineers as a bottleneck for everything, the fact that a lot of ideas and a lot of pieces of software never exists, because people don’t see 100 million dollar market opportunity for them. Tech literacy at a more social level is a huge issue, like you have, you know, people and without, you know, getting too much into this, you know, like white male in Silicon Valley, you know, creating software that everybody else uses. And I think it’s a problem. I think the power to create needs to be shared with more people, and just telling people well, you can learn how to code. People have tried to do that, if you think about it, when we started in 2012. That’s what people were saying, you know, in 20 2012, you know, Barack Obama was going on TV and typing some lines of JavaScript. Michael Bloomberg was tweeting about Code Academy. So the world has changed, like people don’t tell that much. You shouldn’t have to care because the truth is, it’s too easy to just tell someone you can Learn how to code in practice. It doesn’t work that way. Like you have started very young. And so I think this is a real problem and Bubble dissolve shot to fix this computer literacy problem, which I think is only starting. Amazing.
Greg Toroosian 7:12
Yeah. Question for you just slightly off topic, or what is your personal opinion, or viewpoint on these codes, academies, boot camps and stuff like that, that are selling to people that want to pivot their career or you know, upskill or learn a new skill, frankly, is it? Do you find that there’s people that come out from there with a lot of quality? Is it like, Is there anything?
Emmanuel Straschnov 7:37
He does work for some people? I think some boot camps for some people work out and people find great jobs. After that. I don’t think what I’ve noticed is that those boot camps prepare you for a job as a software engineer more than they prepare you to build things. Yeah, which is the front. I really seen people start companies after boot camp and to these people, those people that would really tell them like us something like no go to like Babel or some others, but don’t spend, you know, like $10,000 in 10 weeks on a boot camp, because the likelihood you get to a position where you can actually build something real is fairly low. Yeah. If you’re looking for a job and you’re looking for like JavaScript credentials to get a nice paying good paying job, it’s better. It doesn’t work for everyone though. Right? I think there has been a Bubble. Not too fun. But there has been a Bubble around boot camps, which I think I don’t. I don’t want to say somewhere scams, but getting close to that. I think the market has corrected itself now. So
Greg Toroosian 8:38
good. Yeah, I hope so. You know, from my time, internally, I mean, but
Emmanuel Straschnov 8:43
But for the record, I mean, we Bubble also sell boot camps. They’re really cheap, because
Unknown Speaker 8:51
the high end costs,
Emmanuel Straschnov 8:53
like, you know, yeah, we’ve I think, right now we put like 750 dollars for eight sessions. So it’s pretty cheap. But Wow, there is value in boot camps and education. It’s just like $10,000 or science taking something of your incoming salary after you graduate. It’s a very expensive investment that does not necessarily lead to the job you hope for.
Greg Toroosian 9:17
Yeah, yeah. As I was going to say, you know, when I was in town, you get applicants, people that are eager to pivot in their career, or they’ve just gone through these boot camps that are supposed to gear them up for a position, actual professional role as a software engineer straight away. And it’s, I feel like it’s so unfair what they’ve been sold sometimes, especially when, I mean, it’s a double edged sword, right? There is a lack of talent, and you need to be competitive and always be recruiting and looking at other ways to fill your pipeline. But you also don’t want to just hire anyone that’s gone through a boot camp because now like you said that they haven’t been always teed up to build things and you need people to come in and build so it’s a slippery slope, you know? But yeah, I have seen people come out from them thrive by is probably more the exception than the rule. But it’s I’m glad to hear that you think that the market starts correct itself because yeah, I’ve seen boot camps pop up all over the place and charging crazy money or percentages, and it’s just
Unknown Speaker 10:17
it’s not fair for the individual sometimes.
Greg Toroosian 10:20
Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. So how does this change this career pivot for you going from where you were beforehand into now being a co founder and part of a tech startup? Was it? daunting? Is it super interesting? Were you worried about letting go of everything you’ve done beforehand and jumping into this?
Emmanuel Straschnov 10:42
No, I don’t know. Maybe I was completely stupid. at all, actually. I was coming out of school and in many ways, you know, starting a company, especially if it’s just two guys not raising money for a while as we did is a pretty similar lifestyle to being in school. I couldn’t go to classes but you know, you could be writing your PhD yourself. dictation sufficient or writing code is pretty similar. So from a lifestyle perspective it was pretty similar. The biggest thing for me is that I had to become technical again pretty quickly, which I was not expecting at first. I mean, it was kind of a misunderstanding. Again, not every Sunday, but we call that charge. Double mistake, if you will. So Josh was like a father. He thought he needed the business guy. And I guess I was a business guy, because I was reading in business school. But first of all, that was a mistake. I mean, really, there was not much business to be done for the first few years because of how technical what we do is. And then the second mistake I made is to think I was a business guy because even though I have an MBA, I’m much more of a product person at heart. Like I was technical in high school, I was building a lot of things in high school and I just rediscovered that. That said, I haven’t been writing code between the age of 18 to 29. So I basically missed the entire web thing like the programming I was doing was an MS DOS and Windows 95. A long time ago, and going back to that took a few months. That was like the biggest change, I guess, in my early entrepreneurial career was to become technical again. Yeah. But because we hadn’t raised external funding, we actually had the time to spend to learn. I had the time to spend on things. And we raised money, investors would have told us, hey, you need to learn how to cook, just hire the quarters. Yeah. And we decided not to raise money and do the thing we wanted to do our way, which turned out pretty well for a second.
Greg Toroosian 12:26
I want to jump into that, actually. So two things, one on your funding, you know, obviously bootstrapping and maybe self funded, if we can talk about that a little bit. And then into your what we were talking to offline. Was your path actually building a team and how long you guys waited? So I’m assuming they go hand in hand if you want to share a bit more about that.
Emmanuel Straschnov 12:47
Yeah. So we decided not to raise money early on just feeling that the product cycle was a bit too slow for traditional fundraising. Again, as I was saying earlier, what we’re trying to do has been tried for days. cades and so there’s a lot of skepticism because a lot of people have made that promise, you know, hey, you’re going to build anything without code. And the old engineer was like, This is bullshit at work. And, and to be fair, they’re pretty, they were true. I mean, like, for many years, all the previous atoms were not delivering on the promise. And so we were like, let’s not go to market too soon, because you could go to the mass market like Mark when any market is, we had to pay customers pretty much immediately. But it was a small crowd of people that would work with, but we didn’t try to get in TechCrunch, or anything like that early on. Because we were like, if we try to go to the mark market too soon, and try to get a lot of users use a product that’s not powerful yet, you’re going to reinforce the skepticism. So let’s be right and so because we, we felt it would take a few years and whether we were right or wrong, we can discuss but definitely more than the 810. One year 12 months, it takes usually to go from the seed round or enter round to the next round. And so we thought the business was just not suitable for early funding as other startups. So that’s why we didn’t raise money. And so yes, well, so we had fundraising last year so after six years and so before that, all of that, like it was all organic with it. So it was just the two of us for five years, believe it or not kind of doing everything so I know we gotta talk more about hiring but doing absolutely everything at a company with two guys is interesting it suddenly you develop like a process for instance, myself, even though I was building the product like I was also doing this for success, I processed over 20,000 tickets myself, wow. Like it’s a function I know extremely well. And I’ve seen all kinds of circumstances with users. In fact, actually something I think as a company that we do pretty well success, probably because of the Explorer path. So there’s a lot of value. On the flip side, it takes a little bit of time, if it were to read again, we may have wanted to hire to raise not raised with hire a little bit sooner, but by few months, not by much more, still hold
Unknown Speaker 14:57
specifically or just in general
Emmanuel Straschnov 14:59
in general. Look at success specifically but in general for everything. So yeah. And transitioning from that to doing absolutely everything ourselves like not outsourcing a single thing to starting hiring specialists like people that will do one thing and focus on that. So we started that in mid 2017 was a very interesting period for us. And that led us to early 2019 with 12 people profitable at that point, and then we decided to pull the trigger on fundraising to scale a little bit more aggressively.
Greg Toroosian 15:28
That’s really, really cool. And you don’t really hear that a lot. You know, people have a great idea. Sometimes they’re even raising money just purely off their PowerPoint with a view of jumping in straight to higher teams. So it’s, it’s great that you guys were very
Emmanuel Straschnov 15:44
aware of that approach. Yeah, right. It’s a different approach. I think it depends on what you’re trying to do. If you’re trying to build something like a marketplace. I think you have, you need probably funding early on because you kind of need to fake it until you make it you know, create one side Have the marketplaces something for something like pure software like we do. It’s a little bit different.
Greg Toroosian 16:04
Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s why I have that awareness and about the market, knowing what you can actually do yourself and being prepared to, you know, not everyone is prepared to have the idea they have the drive, they know it’s gonna work eventually. But they’re not prepared to do that for five years. That’s a long time. That’s a long time before you even think about bringing people in and you were profitable, which is huge. So congratulations.
Emmanuel Straschnov 16:30
So now let’s talk about since then, since you’ve got your funding, and now going into hiring your first team members, your core team where you started, because it was just the two of you now you’ve got to go through your whole delegation practice right, what am I relinquishing control on and bringing a specialist in for? How did you decide that and what were your first key hires?
Emmanuel Straschnov 16:53
So as I said, for the reason you happen after we got 10 people for the team, so self finance, but I mean Traditionally, we started with engineers. Because at some point, it became like, Joshua, just coding everything else selves was becoming a bottleneck. So we started with two engineers how to find a means but a few months to find them. And that was difficult, then success is something that that one was especially easy for me to hire for, because I had done so much myself that it was fairly easy to manage someone to do that. And then operations that got us to a team of six to customer success, what operations to engineer so actually seven people. And after that, all, except growth, we started hiring for growth later than everything else. Because the thing that happened when you just have two people for five years, or is that you, you develop a community and so we have to serve that community of users, customers, customers, soon so we had to invest in engineering and success before you’ve seen a growth. So growth happened maybe a year later, the first hires interesting Okay, I’m into the thing around, giving back control, it’s actually something I have no problems with, I’m pretty comfortable doing that. It’s something we can’t abuse too much. Because like, the bigger we get tougher it is. But our early community of, you know, users, they knew it was just the two of us were pretty understanding these mistakes when we would make a mistake or something. And so when the community is a community of people that are really, really big fans of the product, I mean, our users tend to be like, you know, 15 hours a day on Apple. Like, they’re really, really engaged. And there’s a forum where people talk and stuff like that. So people are pretty passionate about it. So of course, they’re upset if someone makes a mistake, but that also means you can delegate and see how it plays out. And you know, after a couple of weeks of delegating, honestly, most of the biggest mistakes that you haven’t thought of prior to the person doing them already made and then you move on and you do something else. And like people don’t make mistakes anymore, so I didn’t have too many problems myself, delegating to people Great,
Greg Toroosian 19:00
great. And then what about leadership? Have you hired any key leaders apart from the two of you?
Emmanuel Straschnov 19:09
I mean, we have a head of product management who also covers business operations. So the area where the covers is pretty big. Then we promoted from within the head of success, who started as a customer success associate and is now a leader of a team of six, pro seven soon, so yeah, promoting from the inside that the only place where we have like intermediate management, middle level management on the success side, engineering is still going straight to Josh and the growth team is mostly going to be directed for now. Okay, for some for some reason, like it’s easier to promote on the inside for success than it was for the other positions we had. And on the flip side, a head of engineering or head of growth, that is not the right fit is a very costly mistake for a company Yeah, and so it was pretty safe for us to promote ahead of success from the inside. It’s tougher to let in all the others so we decided to protect ourselves. Okay, perfect. Yeah,
Greg Toroosian 20:10
yeah Customer Success is such a great function for internal promotion and everyone really internal mobility and that they’re the people that really know it from the ground up and then they can also be most successful and they know your customers better than so. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. And you’re right, the head of engineering that doesn’t work out is costly on a number of fronts. As you can imagine, yeah,
Emmanuel Straschnov 20:34
This is really bad for team morale.
Greg Toroosian 20:39
So what has attracting talent been like for you guys?
Emmanuel Straschnov 20:45
I mean, it’s a war right? I mean, it’s a war for talent everywhere. The bigger you get, the easier especially in the sweet spot when you just raised around. The quality of inbound applications really goes up after you raise money because Whether it’s a smart or not smart thing to do from people, I’m not here to comment on that. But you know, when you’ve been covered in the news was around is like famous investor stuff like that it does inspire trust, you know, candidates, more
Unknown Speaker 21:15
PR and
Emmanuel Straschnov 21:16
Right, exactly if your product did. At first we will try to find people ourselves and you know, doing cold outreach to people. Obviously, looking at inbound things. We didn’t recruit great people in down days, but most of the good ones were actually coming from outreach, or recruiting services, even though some were great somewhere tougher. Yeah.
Greg Toroosian 21:38
Yeah. Is that per roll? Are you talking about actual partners, external partners, some are grants.
Emmanuel Straschnov 21:44
It was a roll like it was the engineers on this day where it’s the toughest growth is hard, but that one is kind of network based. You have a lot of good people that could do growth at companies. You just need to be on their radar, but it’s not necessarily super short supply. It’s just about you need to Make sure you have the right platform because the good people are noticing looking engineers. Engineers are just a surprise and not enough people. And so you need to find them. success for us, which is very successful. It’s much more complicated than a lot of other companies because we basically have to look at what people are building and try to debug things for them. And like a lot of things we’re trying to do. It’s much more technical. It’s not engineering, but it’s semi engineering, you have to be a board expert. We found there are a lot of very bright people that want to get into technology. And studying success with us is a very good way to do that. Actually, it’s always better. It’s better than doing a boot camp, honestly. Because after two years on the success team at Bubble, you know, were pretty well like web development. Well, pretty well. People don’t need to code but actually adding code to their skills will probably be one of the easiest things because they know how API works and a lot of things. And so for that we have a pretty good pipeline actually. So inbound was pretty powerful.
Greg Toroosian 23:01
Very cool. Very cool. So for you guys, have you seen the value in recruiting using recruiting specialist partners? So whether that’s thinking about as you grow hiring internal functions people to focus on it or partnering dedicated externally or is it always in your mind going to be a hybrid model of because, you know, as companies grow, they have a very robust referral program internally for example, great hires come from referrals and you want to promote that consistently. Some say hey, we don’t want to bring that skill set in house we’re always going to use external partners, and there’s some it’s a complete mixed bag. I’m just curious where you guys are out where you had to
Emmanuel Straschnov 23:44
um, I mean, at this stage, we’re trying to figure it out. So because we’re trying to figure it out. It’s going to be hybrid for some time. We’ve tried to do everything right from tractors, we have someone in house who helps a lot with you know, Well, office management wouldn’t have an office culture, can have a HR person interview training and also sourcing. So she tries as well. I do something myself. Referrals have worked pretty well, so far, like we have, I think hired like two people so far out of 25 from referrals so bad. So we try everything. My guess is that we keep doing that for quite some time. Yeah. until we decide to do something. Also, I mean, the way it’s structured with recruiters is that you pay on your success, you know,
Greg Toroosian 24:34
it’s not very expensive to keep the line open and see what comes in see what comes in for sure. For sure. That’s good. Yeah. And also on the referral topic. When I headed up teams, you know, you look at stats a lot. I don’t know if you guys are there looking at the data, you obviously know the number off the top of your head how many referrals come in. Some people might say well, that’s not enough referrals to make hires from but personally I think that’s a great portion of highest being made from referrals because what you the dangerous when gets close to close to 50% of hires being made from referrals, you tend to get this historic culture in your team that you never really created, because now you’re just getting a bunch of people that are the same, where and it’s not really that obviously, technically, they’re good and they come recommended. So they obviously carry a bit more weight and you take it a little bit more seriously, but then you have to have an eye on that and be like, how many people do we want from referrals? What’s our sweet spot? And then let’s push to other sources of candidates, because it’s very important to have that mix that you guys have. I think it’s super valuable.
Emmanuel Straschnov 25:36
Yeah, definitely something to be careful of. Yeah, for sure.
Greg Toroosian 25:40
So obviously doing this for a while, you must have some gems and some key key bits of information and advice that you can probably share with the listeners now around, potentially team building itself, structuring your teams, hiring partnerships, or even employer branding because you guys have you’re in such a unique space right now. Like you said, you This problem has been tried to be attacked for so many years. Now you’re at a point where you’re successful with it. And communicating your product or your company is probably a key part of how you are managing to entice and attract talent. And what can you share with people that has been super valuable, what you think, hey, these are things you can go and apply right now in your role or in your company.
Emmanuel Straschnov 26:29
So what we struggled with, and I don’t have a great answer yet is engineering, because engineers are not our target customer base. And so they come in because of product school, but they don’t use it. So when On the flip side, though, and that has been pretty efficient with every other position is whether it’s growth or success, our users and our potential candidates as the same people provided New York because we will not be remote now. We are obvious reasons, but back then we were not. And so in terms of how we were like trying to attract talents, every effort we would do trying to attract users was also helping us with recruiting, which was pretty interesting. It’s a lot because of the nature of our products. I don’t know how replicable it is, but whether, you know, we target people, as customers that want to start a tech company that are not super technical themselves, well, usually someone who wants to do that the likelihood they want to join a growing startup
Unknown Speaker 27:30
is pretty high. So
Emmanuel Straschnov 27:33
and often we have users reaching out to us and hey, by the way, Are you hiring something when they do that they’re remote? And we used to say, no, maybe we change that. So that has worked pretty well. It’s because of the nature of our product. So it’s not something that is super replicable. And on the flip side, for engineers, it was tougher because interested engineers and the users and so it’s, it takes a little bit of work for us to do before the join. To attract them to submit applications to communicate the value of the product, because they don’t see it as much. And then, once they’re in to make sure they know the product well, which was not simple, like we had situations at the beginning with our first hires, where we realized after a year that they didn’t know sub features that were not super advanced. And we’re like, wow, that’s actually a problem. Like sometimes some engineers with pitch some ideas are like, wait, but we already have that. And so we spent on that we spent a lot of time we actually wrote the Bubble test, we might make it public when they if we want to let people self certify or something. Like people, we haven’t written tests where you ask people questions about how to do things in Bubble to make sure the coverage of the knowledge of the product is pretty deep. And that has proven to be very, very valuable, that we do things. Another thing that we started doing so this is more around, you know culture and hiring the right people and communicating your value culture. Well. We put a lot of effort into creating energy in creating like a little deck. In addition to the standard legal offer letter that we sent to candidates trying to explain, you know, where the first weeks will look like the team we’re trying to build. We tried to create, we put their, you know, statement that is a little bit antagonizing as much as possible without you know, saying crazy things because you want people to identify with the team you’re trying to build, or you want someone that sometimes you know, there may be very smart, read that and say, Oh, no, that’s not me. I don’t want to go there. And not because it’s a bad company just because it’s just not the right fit, because you will, it’s important to attract people that will work well with a country trying to build Yeah, and so we spent quite some time putting together this deck to explain, you know, the country trying to build explain how stock options work, because that’s the component of the compensation at the startup and people are not always clear about how that works. And so it’s fairly technical, so you need to explain how that works. That has worked so far. It’s fairly new, but so far, we have a pretty good hit rate in terms of Citing the offers after receiving it, so that’s good.
Greg Toroosian 30:03
I think more information isn’t a bad thing. You know, I always strive to give that with giving an offer, you know, even down to the point where you touch on stock options, which for a lot of people haven’t had to deal with before, they’ve never been given them associate that early in their career or their work for big companies. So when they know what an RSU is, for example, I like to give the comparison as well that we don’t offer that we give ISOs. And this is what they could, you know, this is what strike price means. And this is what, you know, your vesting period is and giving all that information and comparisons because what gets confusing is someone goes away and talks to a parent or a colleague or friend. And then I know that’s not how it works, because they don’t understand there’s different types of stock options, for example, or your culture book, you know, Netflix very much moves the needle here, right? Being very Oprah, you know, giving that document out. So I think it’s very valuable and you can bet basically making people opt in to you as a company. eyes wide open wholeheartedly, and they should be even more engaged on day one, you would hope. Yeah. I really liked what you said though. And I really want to highlight that here, before we sign out, you basically are doubling up on your effort or maximizing on the effort that’s already being made there by your users, converting them to candidates. And I’m so so I feel so strongly about that. I’m passionate about that. Because if you already have that relationship with people, and then obviously you’re in a unique situation where your product, right for certain teams, but if you flip that on to other aspects, and you may be a company that has storefronts, right, and general public would come in and never think about working there because it’s just it might just be, you know, hourly employees or whatever or store managers. But on the back end, if you’re tech enabled or if you have marketing functions, operations and all that your customers may actually be employed by corporate, think about how you can maximize that as well. Social recruiting, you may have people engaging with your social platforms, your social presence, your Instagram, your LinkedIn, your Twitter, how can you maximize that for hiring as well, because again, they may not be aware about all the roles you hire for as a company. And I just speak from experience, you know, when I was in a Hyperloop, for example, we obviously everyone thinks about Wow, big moonshot idea must be all these, you know, very small engineers and rocket scientists and whatever it is coming under one roof, but then we’d have a really big marketing and legal and operations function and software engineers. So opening their eyes to that you can really get some very engaged and quality candidates that are passive, they just love you. They’re already engaging with you in some way, whether it’s your product, or your service, or your social network or even your storefront. So maximize on that you utilize it, put up adverts, you know, social recruiting, share stuff about your brand and your culture, it’s going to
Unknown Speaker 33:06
reap huge rewards Trust me. So,
Greg Toroosian 33:10
yeah, anything else you want to share? Before we go, I think our time is almost up anyway.
Emmanuel Straschnov 33:15
I’d be like, just the two of us for five years, like, the challenge is that you become extraordinarily good at what you’re doing. Because, you know, you repeat, like, I could process you know, like, 50 success tickets in like an hour or something like, like, two hours, like, extremely fast. Like when you build something when you work on the same thing again, and again, again, you become very, very good. And so the challenge with that is, when you start scaling the team, you take a huge hit, in terms of productivity, and that was painful, like my provocative way to define scaling is you know, hire people and pay them to do something not as fast as you would do that yourself. Which is unnecessary pain. Tails, that’s how it works because you have to invest in them. And that’s actually going to get better than you because it’s just going to do that. Right? It takes like a few months to get there. And so that’s why I think would have probably been better to hire a little bit sooner to pay that cost a little bit earlier, because it was painful,
Greg Toroosian 34:15
you wouldn’t have a dip in productivity, you’re saying, Chris, yeah,
Emmanuel Straschnov 34:18
The drop of productivity would not have been would not have been that high. And so this is hard, like management is really hard. And especially coming from a place where it’s just two guys building everything themselves without anyone like without any management overhead, which is one of my big lessons of last years. That said, I think management is one of the most exciting things you can work on those things, creating, you know, a structure for people to perform, and like creating systems that people are going to perform even better than they thought they would or they could is an extremely rewarding thing. Like when you see someone actually getting better at doing something. This is really cool. I think it’s a great feeling. And so I’m gonna discover that as an entrepreneur compared to before, marriage is hard, it’s probably the hardest thing that I have to deal with other databases, but it’s somewhere we can learn it. So this is a recent, like few weeks with COVID. And quarantine and work from home has led to some interesting situations like even though as a business, we tend to be. Honestly, the situation is helping us I think, because people have more time to fill up their computers. And so people are like, and they’re trying to find ways to launch businesses and make side revenue. So it’s actually been helping us in terms of getting new users. It’s been tough on the team, and it’s something new. So it’s a lot of opportunities, but also toughen on that one. That’s a new chapter for us that we need to learn, like how to transition to remote culture, at least for a few months. It’s not easy, and that’s taking a lot of my time right now trying to figure out how to do this efficiently.
Greg Toroosian 35:48
Amazing. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. It’s definitely growth pains, learning pains of starting out and being you know, first time manager growing teams and hiring people to do stuff that you Did slower than you did is a tough one. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but you know, they always say you sometimes have to slow down to speed up. And that’s exactly what you guys have to do. They slow down with that productivity and now you have specialists. So, yeah, great advice about that timing of hiring. It’s a balancing act for sure. Especially when cash is tight. Especially when you’re trying to be mindful on spend. Okay, well, look, thank you. We’ve been talking to Emmanuel Straschnov who is the co co CEO and founder of Bubble, Emmanuel? Where can people find out more about you and learn more about Bubble?
Emmanuel Straschnov 36:35
I mean, Bubble that I Oh, is probably the best way I’m on Twitter at is trashed off. And then if people want to be in touch and have specific questions, the best is to send an email to contact@bubble.io, which the team is small enough that if someone mentioned something specific, I said in this podcast and come to me,
Greg Toroosian 36:52
amazing, okay, cool. Thank you very much. Looking forward to getting this one published and people learning from you and we’ll stay in touch
Unknown Speaker 37:00
Yeah, thank you. That was fun. Thank you.
Outro 37:04
Thank you for listening to the Elevate Hire podcast. Be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes. Until next time.
