Greg Toroosian 4:11
I think, honestly speaking for a lot of people right now, you know, you follow that blueprint that either your parents give you or society gives you and you do it and like your career, you do it, you do it really well. There’s just something missing. You just can’t put your finger on it. You’re disengaged. You don’t know what it is. Yeah,
Lori Shao 4:27
exactly. And then you know, and then when we’re in, you know, in the space or in the career for 18 years, the longer you’re in there, the more complicit you are like, you’re just super comfortable with life, right and every risk or every thought about doing something different and you is, you know, it comes it comes with a lot of fear and trepidation because one like, Am I starting from scratch to you know, I have a husband and two very young kids taking this leap. Have faith Am I being selfish? You know, to my family? Why do I want to disrupt peace? You know, all the way down to something as simple as, you know, my husband is self employed and my family afford insurance because I open America, right? So lots to think about because, you know, you’re just not taking the leap of faith for your own aspirations. But really, you’re taking your entire family along the ride. And so, if there is failure, if, you know, the bootstrapping is going to be longer than you or I had expected, you know, because every month of bootstrapping is, you know, money out of my kids’ college fund. Right? And so you have to, you have to equate all of that towards a family vacation that would never take place. And, it was really hard, but then I was really struggling towards the end just to feel fulfilled, because I feel like where I knew where I was going. Witnessing myself really deteriorating? You know? Because if you asked me, Why aren’t you happy? And from a bystander perspective, it seems like I have it all.
Greg Toroosian 6:10
Yeah, yeah. I’m gonna say, yeah,
Lori Shao 6:13
the company you know, I have a, I have two healthy kids. I have a husband. I have you know who we seem to be like a very loving family. We have, you know, I have a career, I’m common well, and being treated well and being, you know, directed to do things that I asked for, right on projects that I enjoy.
Greg Toroosian 6:34
I’m working with, like globally recognized reputable brands as well. Yeah.
Lori Shao 6:40
And, and then I realized, you know what, I just need to give this a shot. Because the longer I don’t take this leap of faith, the harder it will be for me. Because if there will never be the right time, because my kids will always be needy. You know, there’s always responsibilities. If it’s not insurance today, then it’s something else at a later point, right? And, and I and I realized that if I don’t do it now, I’ll probably never be able to do it. And then I found it. Finli. So my last day at JPMorgan was literally April 1 2019. You know, and I just, it was just me and a laptop.
Greg Toroosian 7:22
Oh, it was just you and you started. It was just me.
Lori Shao 7:26
It was just me and a laptop. You know, we’re very fortunate to get into Grid110 which is our car.
Greg Toroosian 7:33
Yeah, yes. I do some advisory work for a big sell exchange. So they partner a lot with grid lanterns. And yeah, I know Mickey over there. She’s great.
Lori Shao 7:41
Yeah, amazing. Lisa, she’s Mother Teresa. I agree. I adore her and and to be in a community of like minded individuals who are struggling with maybe the same things that were super helpful and that experience or In my eyes to possibilities, right, and shortly after grade one and ended, we were accepted into Techstars. So we started Techstars cool way 2019 and, and that I remember, you know, starting Techstars, we still had pretty much a team of one, you know, I worked with a couple of contractors here and there, and those were, you know, in the situation where it’s, you know, getting to know each other face. But still, I was, you know, a team of one going into it. And it wasn’t until midway into Techstars that we started building a team. Yeah. And they’re here.
Greg Toroosian 8:39
Yeah, wow. Okay, very cool. There’s obviously the correlation there between your banking experience and your career and then jumping into the payments world. But what made you pivot? I guess you kind of answered it, the purpose driven element of it, but what really highlighted that purpose to go into helping these families Many centric businesses, how did that come to you that, hey, this is a market or this is an area that really needs our assistance or some way that I can have an impact and let me dive scarily into the deep end, right? How do I jump into the deep end into this scary, uncertain world by myself and put everything on the line? Because there’s something missing and I want to have an impact? Sure.
Lori Shao 9:23
So in my 18 years in banking, the last eight years of it, I spent strictly working with payment innovation companies, right Silicon Valley Bank, their payment innovation, and then most recently, I was the executive director also in the payment side, JPMorgan, and so in those roles, you know, you get to see all the innovation and all the innovators and all the great ideas coming through. Right, and, and as much excitement there are for all those other verticals out there. One glaringly obvious space that was missing. Innovation was small business, right? And my definition of SMBs is not what the government FMB companies under 500 employees like my SMBs my small neighborhood businesses is, you know, Mom and Pop owner operated with a couple of helpers running a studio or school teaching kids, that they are struggling and there are no tools for them. And so being in that space, seeing the gap that there is really no one out there trying to lift right this community that really is desperate for some solutions and automation and technology. If you know, I feel like the thoughts were all there and it’s just up to me to connect them. I know how to build this technology. I see the need, I see the gap. And I I see it in my life. You know my husband and I the only time we order a checkbook is to pay our bills. Kids teachers, right? With an array and an abundance of payment options that you and I have available today. You know, there needs to be a bridge to make this available for the small business that the neighborhood store-fronts that makeup, you know, every community is the fabric of our community, the light, you know, the heartbeat of our community. They are extremely underserved. And if you look at it if you take a step back and think why, but there’s a lot of stigma when it comes to providing technology and software for things like micro SMDs, how many impressions do they need to make to convert? Right? You need boots on the ground? Oh, no, none of us tech companies wants boots on the ground. Right? Are they fee sensitive? Because we need to charge these large SAS fees and are they are they do they understand
Greg Toroosian 11:54
so many barriers there that peer companies put up?
Lori Shao 11:58
barriers but then at the same time You know, for me, it’s like, if there aren’t any barriers, then there would have been. We’ll be doing it already. Yeah
I might as well do it, because I’m passionate about providing a solution for this community because they are the ones that fuels our lives, right. I don’t know where we would be my husband and I, as we know, in order for us to work full time and to make ends meet, and have our kids at home, right, all of the teachers, whether it’s daycare centers, nannies, tutors, women’s doctors, right, they are part of our family, and, and to see them struggle and managing their book of business via text messaging app on their mobile phone, to see them losing out on revenue that they sold is earned to see parents without their customers telling them hey, I took this, you know, karate shirts, but you never billed me for it, you know, to remind them that Yeah,
Greg Toroosian 12:57
great point.
Lori Shao 12:58
You know, it’s like, it’s heart wrenching. And somebody in my situation where I knew I needed to change my career direction, I knew I needed to do something that’s more impactful. I knew I needed to seek out a career and not just another job, right? I just need to do something that’s more mission and vision driven to really satisfy that need that I’ve had since day one of working in corporate America. And then seeing how all these individuals that I care so deeply about who I consider as an extension to our families struggle to get their business off the ground or to the next level. Right
Greg Toroosian 13:40
great. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very refreshing hearing you talk about and you can definitely hear the passion still and sounds like you know, throughout your Caribbean 18 years in banking and then to have this light bulb while but it sounds like the light bulb went off a while before but to have that real push out the door. So you know, I’m putting my stay connected. I’m going to go out and I’m going to do this is great to hear and it’s very rare and then also to hire to target a certain demographic of a client that has been avoided or ignored if you like. And I think you know you touched on a good point : there’s no technology there or there’s limited technologies to help them and serve them but I also think that there’s limited education because if you’re just a mom and pop or you’re just one person thing, you’re also not aware. You know, if you’re like doing your own tutoring on the side or in the community, you might not be aware of what the tools out there to help you and the systems in place to help you and also maybe daunting, the price like you mentioned, do I really want to spend on extra stuff when I can manage it through text message and get by?
Lori Shao 14:49
Right You know, they are there in their brick and mortar Studio 24 seven, right, trying to make ends meet teaching classes, makeup classes, dealing with customer support. For all that stuff, they’re not the social media influencers with 100,000 followers. Yeah. You know, and what’s interesting and I know we’ll talk about it a bit, we’re a part of our solution is to provide them that digital presence that it’s lacking right for them to reach a wider audience. We naively thought if we provide them the tools, you know, everything will just happen seamlessly or automatically in the most ideal and perfect way. But then we realized, all the way down to something as simple as an intake form. Tell me about yourself. Tell me how, why, why did you get into this field? Right? The copywriting was something that we took on even because these small business owners have been doing this for decades in their community. They are the gems and jewels in their community. Yet no one knows about them because they don’t know how to market themselves. They don’t know how to get the word out.
Greg Toroosian 15:58
Yeah, it’s all word of mouth like it Like oh I did that when I was a kid and let me take my kid there now or something like that my cousin takes their children so
Lori Shao 16:05
absolutely yeah. For them when when COVID head and they have to close your doors and their customer base is no longer dependent and reliable and they realize they are not able to make ends meet and the problem stems farther from not being able to pay you know electricity bills for your brick and mortar it’s actually them not being able to put food on the table or make rent payment for their own house. Right. That is such a heart You know, tough pill to swallow because never wants to have their livelihood in sweat and delay. Yeah, right and so and so that’s why we set out to do what we will we do
Greg Toroosian 16:45
Love it. Love it. So obviously very timely because we still think we’re supposed to be coming out of lockdown soon because of COVID. So your platform and the service that you provide is ideal for that. up in this scenario and definitely proves the market is proving that as well the benefits you provide. So just so I understand when a company joins your platform, or joins or takes on your service, you do an intake self profile for them, you give them presents on your website as well as the technology too, I’m assuming, monitor their inventory and do payments and all of that stuff as well.
Lori Shao 17:27
Absolutely. So our core product, our core solution is essentially their digital seal, right? We take care of everything behind the scenes so they can focus on teaching. It is mind boggling what the gap or the whole different reality is from what they initially thought that they’re getting themselves into. opening up a small business school or tutoring center or you know, an enrichment program. It’s just like a startup, right? Like everything that you enjoy doing. You don’t have to
Unknown Speaker 18:02
tell me about
Lori Shao 18:05
The thing is the exact same thing. And what we provide is we take care of literally everything behind the scenes from invoicing tuition collection from anyone anywhere, anytime booking scheduling, right, digitizing their enrollment and account management so they no longer have to deal with paper and file everyone in the manila envelope. You know, that is the life that they lived prior to Philly. And now with COVID you know, we are accelerating our initiative to add the premium feature of getting them their digital presence which is helping them right with a copy helping them create the appropriate landing page driving customers to sign up for classes on their site and even after they opened their doors. Majority If not, I would say I want to say almost I would say I want to say 100%. But I’m just going to be safe and be like the majority of our customers are or will continue to have a virtual presence. Because, you know, to assume that when you open your doors 100% of your students will come back is naive.
Unknown Speaker 19:15
Yeah,
Lori Shao 19:17
yes. And then at the same time, you have to realize, because they’ve been burned because they’re there their livelihood has been challenged. In the past, they may feel very comfortable and with their small business, right, just growing in that small community, but now they are looking for a backup plan to their backup plan. So during their downtime, they will be teaching online classes, right during their off hours, they will be scheduling for more classes, whether it’s corporate or trying to teach your child across the globe. Yeah, you know, because that is where we believe a new normal will look like for the education space
Greg Toroosian 19:59
you already empowering them to and allowing them to do that and feel confident in their ability to do that. Because I think that’s a big part of it. You just when you don’t know, you don’t have the tools, you’ve never done it before it hinders you, or, in a lot of cases stops you from even trying, like why on earth would I want to teach someone in Europe and I’m on the west coast of the US. How is that gonna work? logistically? How am I gonna get paid? Is it worth the hassle? It sounds like more hassle than it’s worth anyway. So that’s so great.
Lori Shao 20:29
It’s a barrier to entry. Yeah. Because right now if you walk into any brick and mortar school, they have a literally a wall calendar that they have all right, they may give you information about her to say you should show up during this hour. Right? And that’s what they have in place. So how in the world can they bring this online and and book and allow customers new customers to book anywhere anytime, right? No, that is impossible. So be sure barriers to entry that’s hindering them from getting the word out from reaching a wider audience base. And what this also represents is, we are recalibrating the starting point for many small businesses, right? So you can be at an art school in Compton. And you can reach the same audience as an art school in Manhattan. If you have passion, desire, and true love for your craft, you no longer need to be handcuffed under this glass ceiling of your words, your brick and mortar located Do you have enough capital to have this beautiful renovation? Do you have enough Instagram followers to, you know, help you promote? You know, all of these issues would be none issues if we have the ability to, you know, remove some of these barriers and give everyone a fair chance to shine. And that’s the bigger vision of what we’re trying to accomplish.
Greg Toroosian 21:58
It sounds like you’re definitely on the It’s a great foundation. I mean, you guys have only been around for just over a year. So
Lori Shao 22:07
elite family stands for financial lift, by the way I find,
Greg Toroosian 22:11
right? Yeah, we should have mentioned that at the beginning.
Lori Shao 22:15
Our whole core of what we do is the essence of what we do is to financially live communities.
Greg Toroosian 22:21
Great. So let’s also talk about something else that’s very current right now, the Black Lives Matter movement has really, really taken off the world as it seems like finally listening changes are happening. And obviously, for me, for you, we’re not from the US originally, and you know, we’re from different places in the world. And I have, again, I don’t wanna speak for you, but experiencing things throughout our career throughout our life that has this makes it hit home very much, right. So seeing it, it made me feel a lot of things and made me feel and also look back on myself. What can I do? How can I change? But obviously I’m in the employment world, I’m in talent acquisition, I’m in recruiting. How does this translate into the professional world as well, from the discrimination from lack of opportunity from outright racism and what I’ve seen, so, you know, a little bit of self reflection, I put out things I posted things about what companies can do, how they can take a look at themselves, and what actionable things that they can do to actually make a difference and create some sort of change. And I was very, very impressed with what Finli has done. I shared it on my LinkedIn, my small, humble LinkedIn, we actually have over 7000 views on that post. So hopefully, it’s created something for you. But please share what you guys as a company have actually done to make a difference.
Lori Shao 23:49
Thank you for that. You know, at Finli we deal with small businesses and the majority of our small business clients and prospects are minorities. Right? So when all of this started to happen, I reached out to our black owned studios and businesses, just to see how we can be helpful. Right. And the auction that we’ve taken is a direct reflection of their feedback is the feedback of our customer base, which as we just need help, you know, we just need to get our wheel spinning again, we just need a little push, we just need some confidence in our ability to contribute to society at large. And so with that feedback, we took action. And so two of the things or two of the initiatives that we undertook as a result of it The first is we set up family grants, which is on a first come first serve basis. We will give $500 to any black owned applicants of black business applicants to the Grand picture as, like our customer mentioned, a little bit can go a long way when it’s no strings attached. Mm hmm. So that’s one thing. But then what we will also realize is money can only solve problems. That is a moment in time. Right? The $500 maybe equates to a month of groceries. But after this is done, then what? And so the second initiatives that we have, which is very much aligned with our overall mission of stand up for small business, right, but in this case, we’re highlighting the black owned businesses, where we make it super easy for corporates and clients and class seekers to purchase packages that are owned that are taught by black instructors, right because when you become their customer, you are telling them that you validate their value, add right you you validate their presence you see, you know, you truly want to empower them to do more. Yeah. And you value their contribution to society. And that is going to, in turn not only provide the appropriate capital or revenue that these business owners need, but it will also pump into the community a sense of confidence, right, they’re going to walk away feeling extremely confident and satisfied with what they are contributing to you. So at the end of the day, I feel like this is more of a sustainable solution. When we become their customers, we buy their classes, we’ll buy their products, and we show to them that we care.
Greg Toroosian 26:48
Definitely. That’s great. That’s great. You did a few other things like supporting those teachers as well by purchasing it for your team and things like that as well. So you’re like really putting your The action in place in the money, whether your money where the mouth is, and doing it. So that’s great. I love that. So let’s go back on to hiring and growing your team. So you’re one person starting out in some of these accelerators. How did you go about deciding on your core or your founding team? Like, how did you find them? Did you identify the roles? Did you know them already? What did that look like?
Lori Shao 27:26
Right? So the first critical role that I hired for it was Jonathan, he’s our CEO. For seven plus years, when I was in Silicon Valley Bank, he was in a specific similar capacity with another fin tech company. And, you know, we’ve always stayed in touch. I’ve gone to him for various advice. And then at that time, just the stars were aligned for us to work together in a more meaningful way, and he agreed to come on board, I think that was absolutely critical for us because there’s only so much one person can do. Right, and I was stretched extremely thin. The things that I was producing were really lackluster and quality, because, you know, you think you can do it all but you don’t do it well. And you usually need to hire for your weakness. And I feel that bringing Jonathan on board was a great balance that suddenly desperately needed.
Greg Toroosian 28:37
That’s great. That’s great. Also, it’s great that you have that self awareness to know I’m not doing this right. Let me relinquish some control.
Lori Shao 28:47
No problems really good. You know, and it’s tough because as an early stage startup with a team of one and you know handful of amazing contractors shoulder You even attract people like Jonathan, who is of that caliber to call them work or just anybody else for that matter, you know, we have an amazing team of, you know, ex startup founders event, you know? Yeah, that joined, you know, we have just very, very seasoned and passionate, you know, team of both on the technology side, as well as on sales marketing. So we’re very fortunate to have found one another.
Greg Toroosian 29:29
So talk to me a little bit more about that, because you’re obviously hiring, but competing for talent with big players, right? Because the roles that you’re hiring for aren’t super unique to just your company, you you know, you guys have software Ops, whatever it may be, and you’re in LA, obviously, some of your team and we’ll talk about a bit more where they’re located but how have you found it competing with these other companies and not only competing for like comp or career progression or Anything like that, how have you found your employees?
Lori Shao 30:04
Um, the majority of the team members that we have were introduced by, you know, people that I knew in the community. So referrals, direct direct referrals. Yeah, direct referrals, absolutely direct referrals. You know, our Director of Sales came to us from Techstars. And it’s, everybody’s just extra helpful. And I feel like it’s really important for an early stage founder to have a very strong network of people who actually understand what your needs are and how to speak your story. Right, because I feel like with almost every single interview, that that took place, you know, selling certainly has already been done by somebody else. And so we’re fortunate from that respect and to compete against The others, you know, our, I would say, just to look back, I would say every single one of our critical hires, they were evaluating too thinly and somebody else they either had offers on the table or actively interviewing. And if they even got the word out that they’re actively interviewing, they will be snatched up right away, right? industry expertise. But I think at the end of the day, they joined for me because of this mission alignment piece. Because, you know, like many of them, I think I can get another job as well. Right? If I’m not working within the on friendly, but but it is. It is for us all to be aligned in our desire to really financially impact the communities that we care so deeply about. Right and they believe they genuinely believe that what we are setting out to do what we set out to do. can truly make a difference. And you can be you and have the best role and JPMorgan, Silicon Valley Bank, Wells Fargo or whatever, right? But you could only do so much the impact that you can put forth can only be, you know, so impactful. Whereas everything that we do is directly equal to something, and that is an experience that once you want to have a taste of it, you don’t want to let go. Because as long as we survive another day, we can make a difference. That is something that I don’t feel confident saying, while working in any role that I in corporate America. Yeah, so that’s, I think that was the biggest selling point to get.
Greg Toroosian 32:48
That’s, that’s amazing. Yeah, obviously, having such a mission and values driven company is really going to help you in my opinion. Anyway. Identify, we’ll have it candidate Identify that you’re the place they want to be, it’s going to help you hire the right people, because not only are they joining for your mission, they’ve got that drive to be part of something bigger than them. And culturally, they should fit in, or add in a very unique way. Because they’re not just there for a paycheck. They don’t just want to clock out at five and not think about it. This is bigger than them. This has a huge impact on communities at large and it’s motivating. It’s motivating for people to say yes to that offer over something else, maybe paying more or a bit more ideal, and says it’s motivating for them to do their best work.
Lori Shao 33:38
Yeah, I mean, I am I can just say just from that standpoint, you know, there are definitely, I would say almost every single offer that they had on the table, better compensation, better everything across the board, you know, better title, better goal, better opportunity for, you know, upward growth and all that stuff. Versus Finli Like, are we going to survive 12 months, you know, like, there’s no way
Unknown Speaker 34:03
it’s way more uncertain like I can tell you about career growth. But
Lori Shao 34:08
I can tell you a bit about that. Are we going to? Are we going to be hurt? Right? That’s another question. And so and so at the end of the day, they just truly have to believe what we’re doing is special. That is the only selling point that is the only perk that we have that differentiates from anywhere else. And I and I believe that for those who have joined, they have taken that leap of faith and they do genuinely believe in this mission, which is why we’re all here. Love that.
Greg Toroosian 34:40
Yeah, I think that’s a lesson or good takeaway for the listeners as well. You know, if you are a mission driven, purpose driven company that isn’t just all about the bottom line. The way that you’re going to build your team and identify the core team or the most impactful team at the early stage is going to be people that Frankly, have other offers that are able to just go anywhere else and get hired and do whatever tenancy, they have a choice of doing what they want to do, but they see what’s special in you, and they still jump for it. Because we all know, don’t wanna name companies, but there’s ones that hire tons of people and pay them really well in most locations. And they’re always looking. So you can be in the running for them. Not that it’s easy to get a job. But if you’re a great candidate, you really have a pick. But if you’re, if you’re highlighting and targeting people at the right stage of their career or with the right values, you’re going to be finding an amazing team for the right reason, joining for the right reasons, and creating some brilliant work out of it. And the culture of brilliant culture.
Lori Shao 35:43
Absolutely. I mean, the biggest piece that I was concerned about, you know, just in the past couple of months was burnout because every single one of our team members, they’re working 24 seven, you know, I’m getting messages from them in the middle of the night, like they’re all In. And so to me, I’m just like, wow, I did not expect this by first of all, when everybody starts to work, remote work from home, you just have that momentary thought of, are they What are they doing? Like, are they really going to work? What do I need to have in place, right to make sure that we’re presumptive, and none of that took place? You know, I like it was just a momentary thought. And that was it because everybody just went above and beyond. And I genuinely believe that if they didn’t care about what we’re accomplishing as a unit, nobody will go above and beyond for anything. Right.
Unknown Speaker 36:39
So another great takeaway
Lori Shao 36:41
was my entire career in banking, and it was difficult for me to go above and beyond. In fact, I was dreading every Sunday. I was depressed because Monday is just around the corner, ready to go back to work.
Greg Toroosian 36:55
Even bonus season loses its appeal of the show. After 18 years yeah. That’s great. Well, like thank you so much for sharing all of that. I think there’s been some great gems to share great insight to share as well. And thank you for giving us such a deep insight into Finli what you’re doing over there, which I’m a big believer of, big supporter of and I wish you guys nothing but success. So everyone we’ve been talking to Lori Shao is the founder and CEO of Finli. Lori, where can people learn more about you and Finli?
Lori Shao 37:29
finli.com. So finli.com
Unknown Speaker 37:33
Amazing. All right. Thank you so much.
Outro 37:39
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