Greg Toroosian 4:26
So that’s very cool. So when you met had the company already started or was it just an idea and then when you jumped on as an advisor, it kind of got its legs there.
Stuart Posin 4:35
He had definitely started. I don’t know if he had technically founded the company, you know, the government paperwork type stuff. I was doing the groundwork. He had, he had hired a company to build a prototype for him, so he was cool. He sort of kept it from me for a little while. Not allowing me to see the prototype but a couple months later, I did get to see it. So yeah, so he’d had the idea and started building it already.
Greg Toroosian 5:03
Nice. Nice. Okay, look at that. Your wife introduced you. That’s great. And in New Orleans,
Stuart Posin 5:10
so they could n’t know him either. We are just out yet. Oh, okay.
Greg Toroosian 5:16
It was meant to be clear. That’s amazing. Okay, cool. Well, thanks for sharing that. So it seems like you’ve been involved with companies both externally and as an internal source of knowledge, always from obviously, the technology standpoint. And from your perspective, how both of those setups have been for you, you know, from the advice, how much can you actually affect and help as an external adviser compared to being inside the company and taking on the bureaucracy and challenges and also the groundwork of actually heading up a department and building teams?
Stuart Posin 5:51
Yeah, I suppose that’s gonna depend on the size of the organization. And I can compare it I guess, you know, I’ve been an advisor to two companies. Freebird Rides on XCLAIM, it just depends on the size. I think the more people they have internally, sort of the less power, you know, in quotes, as you would have as an advisor into impact change, where you really become an advisor. But when there’s nobody at the company, it’s just Matt building a company and you’re an advisor. You are the tech.
Unknown Speaker 6:23
Yeah. So
Stuart Posin 6:25
it definitely depends on the size. And then I’ll know, my board experience in the school world in the nonprofit world. Yeah, the bigger the organization, really, the less sort of impact you can have it but what’s important about that is you have to remember that when you choose to try to have impact. Let me say that in a different way. You should really try to focus on choosing the opportunities where you try to make an impact. You’re always trying to make an impact, you’ll actually fail at it because you’ll just become another voice on this. side. So I, my experience tells me that I have to wait for the right moment and then really try. When I’m on the outside, you have to sort of let little things go when you’re an advisor or a board member on the outside, and then really pick up the big stuff, which is really the appropriate role for you.
Greg Toroosian 7:18
Do you still give the advice? Or do you just choose to, you know, let’s let them work that out themselves, it’s probably gonna be more if they figure it out. And then let me do some heavy lifting externally when I need to, you
Stuart Posin 7:30
know, there’s the one line text or the two paragraph email or the hour long phone call, and I think you just have to use them in the right way. It all depends on how I feel about it. Sometimes I’ll send the text and be like, you know, I heard this and think you might want to consider it, right. That’s right. That if nothing comes of it fine. I’ve said something. But yeah, then there’s the Hey, we got a we got to talk this through. I see six months in advance. And yeah, maybe you’re not looking at all the perspectives, red flags. Yeah, no flow on the outside, you still are only a voice, right? aware of all the internal politics or the conversation that’s happened to lead to that point. So it’s also important as an advisor to listen and understand, you know how the company or the organization got to that place? Yeah, not just jump on it and say, Hey, this is wrong, because maybe they’ve done a ton of research. They thought about what your concern is, but just decided that this was the path forward anyways. Internally, of course, that’s the other side of your question. The force for change internally is greater. But also, we get our blinders on internally and focus on things so we do want that outside voice to help us see those other viewpoints or either you can set that up internally to make sure that you have that support structure from other leaders in the company or your engineering team. You’re Your technology team to make sure you are considering all those viewpoints.
Greg Toroosian 9:03
Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. Okay. And in your career, you’ve obviously come into companies as a CTO, or been in director roles, and then your current company right now, where you’re really building. So you must have inherited teams previously, as well, I’m assuming, as well as building from scratch. And how do you personally go about when you come into a company and you’re like assessing the landscape, assessing your team going about restructuring or repurposing people? Or even just change in general? Do you have a philosophy for that or a guideline that you tend to always follow?
Stuart Posin 9:43
You know, you’re forcing me to think about things.
Unknown Speaker 9:47
Sorry to put you on the spot,
Stuart Posin 9:49
for intuition, I would guess. But I think at some level, I’d like to think that I and all of us should respect all people and that they were hired. To do a job, and to not make an assumption that if you know, I’m replacing somebody, and that might have been a bad situation, which I’ve done, that necessarily everybody under them also is bad. Right? Yeah, that’s a good point. When you go when you go to a, we all remember the school days, and you had that first test from a teacher, the hardest one because you didn’t know what to expect on the test. That particular style was always going to be unique. Yeah, same thing. You got to learn, learn to know each other. Learn to know each other. Yeah,
Greg Toroosian 10:32
no impulsive decisions.
Stuart Posin 10:34
I mean, I, I guess it all depends on the inside information that you’re getting, you know, the CEO might tell you, hey, hopefully you would know that in the interview process and willingly accept that job.
Greg Toroosian 10:49
Knowing that you have to come in there and reshape things straight away. Yes, Jay, you know, I’ve been in the same situation that you come in, you’re like, Huh, people have given me information that I know that there’s bad apples or whatever, but you don’t want to, like you say come in then and assume everyone’s bad and then also be like, I’m coming in and putting my stamp on things straightaway ruffling feathers unnecessarily without doing my own assessment and figuring out, you know, I might use this person for a different role or repurpose them.
Stuart Posin 11:18
Yeah. We’re not talking about talent acquisition at the moment, but it’s sort of the same thing. When I tell somebody that I don’t think they’re right for XCLAIM or any company x today, it doesn’t mean they’re not a good person. They don’t have talent. It doesn’t mean that they might not be successful. It doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be successful. Yeah, that’s a double negative. Sorry. Explain. It just means right now. My gut reaction? Yeah,
Greg Toroosian 11:42
yes. And companies change so much. But I love that you said that. It’s a very good point because even when, as an internal recruiter when I was an internal recruiter, letting people down for the company used to be like, Look, right now the growth of the team or the position that we’re filling, it’s just not a right fit. But that doesn’t mean we might not hire you down the line, like, please keep in touch, keep a lookout on our roles and we will also mark you as a potential especially if they are genuinely someone you would consider down the line. But being an under 50 person startup is very different from hiring than being a north of 100 people startup, right. So, yeah, yeah, that’s a great point. Great point. So, from a technology standpoint, cuz obviously that’s your wheelhouse as we go, always done. Are there any roles that come to mind for you? Or that you have a personal you know, a strong point in your heart that you think companies or hiring managers tend to overlook, and maybe don’t always include when structuring their teams? Or is there something that you specifically always need or want in your organization?
Stuart Posin 12:50
I have a lot of answers to this question. So
first, I got to push back on you know, as a tech guy that I only hire tech people. I interviewed someone for a position the other day at one of the organizations I’m involved in, and I talked about sort of the cultural work that we were doing in these specifically around diversity, equity and inclusion, you know, at a for profit company. And this person said to me, you’re a CTO, why are you involved in this? And, and I’m involved in it because I care. But also, I think at a startup, we’re 15 people. Everybody has a responsibility to everything at the company, and especially as a leader, you know, I have that see in my title. Of course, I’m included in that and I want to be included in that. So, holistically thinking from an organizational standpoint, I definitely think there’s a lot of different hires that happen at different times. But technologically speaking, you know, I, I am trying to be very careful about hiring people and expecting too much from them. So I see them on resumes. And I think people are probably trying to make themselves look like they have a lot of breath. Yeah, that’s to me. But I’m being careful to not find if they have the breath, that’s great, but not hire people and expect that. We can’t all be good at everything. It’s just, you know, that’s humans, right? Like, I’m not making a statement about technology, we just can’t. Yeah, and back to my education days, he talked a lot about breadth or depth, you know, these cover all of human history or really, you know, focus on some specific points and see if you can get those lessons taught otherwise. Um, so I, from a tech perspective, I don’t need to hire a full stack engineer, that’s great at you know, Ruby on Rails optimization, who knows, you know, how to get rid of all the n plus one queries deal with Redis and caching, and then also, you know, handle all the react to the TypeScript. Oh, yeah, you got to be an A w Is expert also,
Greg Toroosian 15:02
I get DevOps chops. Right, exactly. Kubernetes.
Stuart Posin 15:06
Yes. Where’s my Docker file? I literally,
I don’t think that’s setting people up for failure and being the company up for failure. So we’ve been hiring full stack engineers. That’s specifically what we’ve been hiring. And I’m thinking about DevOps on the side. I’m thinking about security on the side. I’m thinking about data on the side, and trying to be intentional about how we fill those roles when we need them with the right talent rather than again, expect that breath out of everybody.
Greg Toroosian 15:40
Yeah, it’s such a, you know, again, a great point that you brought up there. And it’s a good lesson, I think, and a good nugget of information for hiring managers in startups to think that because I’ve been at fault of in hiring managers that I’ve helped as well have been a fault of it, thinking like, Hey, I have X amount of dollars or X amount of head counts are higher, but I need to do all of this. So whether it’s a case of really making a case of why you need more, or being intentional and clear, which, which is a part that I try to really play in that intake meeting, and really getting to the bottom of what do you need, like, what are we actually hiring for? What are the projects you’re going to work on now? And after that, Stan? And is this the right role to fill? Right? It’s an easy mistake to make when you’re moving 100 miles an hour, and you’re thinking about everything you want to do. So I just have it tied to people and they need to be able to do all of this stuff. I can’t. And yeah, you’re definitely not only setting the company up for failure, but you’re definitely setting yourself up and your recruiting partner up for failure like liquid for this purple squirrel that you’re never going to be able to find and the hours you’re going to interview and then probably hire someone that doesn’t hit the mark anyway, because you’ve had interview fatigue. Now you’re like, I just need someone in. I’ll teach them if I have to. Which again, like you said, it’s gonna see The company up for failure.
Stuart Posin 17:01
I think something to add to this are two things. My CEO said to me way long ago, I want to build an enterprise company. Right? And so sort of slanted I have, and he is certainly in the leadership team towards that, right. So if I’m thinking about enterprise, I’m not thinking about everybody doing everything. I’m thinking about teams with expertise. Yeah. And trying to as I build, go go that direction. But to add on to that, I would say, what’s key for me in this hiring is making sure I communicate with my CEO and other leadership team on what I am hiring, right. Yeah, you clear I have not hired DevOps, right? We don’t have that expertise. And I’m not hiring for it today. So we are weak in that area, potentially. But at least we’re acknowledging it rather than trying to cover it up
Greg Toroosian 17:58
and having someone to half assed job or just not to the level that you need for scale. That’s the problem, right? It’s putting in putting a bandaid on an area within your business that is just going to have to be ripped down and rebuilt, especially in software, you know, or building it without security in mind. And then it’s like, now you hire a security expert. And they’re going to come in and be like, do you know how long it’s going to take to get us to the point where it’s actually able to be released, you know,
Stuart Posin 18:27
and there are people out there in the world with this expertise, and you can you can hire advisors, consultants, all these different things to help you and so we’ve got a DevOps firm that’s out sourced and, and they’re doing great things to help get us set up and I’ve got a security consultant that I’m working with. So it’s not a thing. It’s not exclusionary. Yeah. knowing where to put my resources. That’s great. That’s great.
Greg Toroosian 18:51
Okay, very cool. Yeah, I’m glad you thought about it that way. I’m glad you’re sharing that because it is tough because it’s tough, especially when you’re you’re being thrown so many different things as you do in a startup rightly so right, you get you have to do everything, or think about everything in one go from the beginning, the tough place to be, and especially if you’ve never done it before.
Stuart Posin 19:11
That’s right. And then you’ve got a VC saying, hey, when you get to prove market fit, hey, let me prove market fitness. And how come it’s not secure? You know, exactly. Oh, yeah, something’s gotta give.
Greg Toroosian 19:26
So how, obviously right now, you’re pretty early stage. Are you in a good place? Because you’re one of the many companies hiring right now in an unsettled time, shall we say, because we obviously with COVID and everything and you guys have had to which I’d love to talk about making a shift to being all remote as well. And you’ve still been hiring which is great. How have you previously and currently worked with either internal recruiting or external recruiting? Is there a preferred way that you’d like to do or partners are strategy?
Stuart Posin 20:02
I think at the end of the day, that’s a money question. Time is sort of money. You know, I’m not Yeah, sure. cliche, that’s probably not true, but it is at some level. So it’s interesting. When I started, I was employee number five. And when we bought somebody for on site, everybody had to be involved, right? Our chief legal officer, you know, there’s only five of us. So everybody has a site. And now that we’re 15, not everybody has to do it on site. So it’s almost like as each candidate or hire came on, we were able to sort of tweak how our on site felt based on the fact that we had more bodies to make an on site feel like they I’d say the big change and going remote is that we don’t feel the pressure to do a four hour on site with a candidate that we can break it up, you know, so candidates that might be on the bubble, I can set him or her I can set let me just say back candidate up to engineers or product and just see how that vibe goes, rather than necessarily having to do the full on site, which when somebody was physically coming to us, we felt like we had to do to think of what point?
Greg Toroosian 21:16
Yeah, that’s a great point. I didn’t even think about that, in all honesty, because what Yeah, you’re right. When I was internal, we’d be like, Look, let’s get to a point remotely or virtually, that we’re almost certain that this person is worth bringing on site. And when they bring on them on site, we want a big commitment. We want that for our interview, they need to meet multiple people, and we want to give them a tour and maybe have lunch with them and do all of that stuff. Because we don’t want to keep bringing them back. You know, candidate experience wise, it’s not nice to be like, hey, travel across LA or fly you in multiple times. I didn’t even think about the benefit of Hey, you can meet different people throughout the whole week. Just fit them in on your schedule. Yeah, good point. Yeah.
Stuart Posin 21:56
And then another question we answered using recruiters or not recruiters That’s sort of that time question. I
Greg Toroosian 22:06
paid time and money. Yeah.
Stuart Posin 22:08
Well, so that’s where the equation happens. So I enjoy recruiters and you. I find, by and large that recruiters will give you the quality candidates, right? So if I’m hiring a full stack engineer, I can say to the recruiter, here’s the skills I want and in a week, they’re going to give me four or five resumes. And the likelihood of me hiring one of those people is probably high. Right? So let’s call that for $30,000. I can have that right, or 25, 20. You know, whatever the fee is, it’s a sizable amount of money. But also three months ago in the engineering world, it was sort of a How do you say it’s a seller’s market, right? Oh, the candidates had more power in the market. And so attracting the right candidate was also harder now three months later, We were working with recruiters. Back then in February, March, post COVID. We’re not working with recruiters because we have enough resumes coming our way. Quality resumes are coming our way. That’s great. You know, I hate saying it’s more of a buyers market, right. Like there’s more people, jobs, then positions. Right. So,
Greg Toroosian 23:22
Yeah, we used to be candidates who could have the say of where they go or who they actually consider. And now it’s the other way around whether the companies, you just have to have a presence, right, yeah, your job post has to be in the right place or mentioned on the right website. And you’re going to get applicants
Stuart Posin 23:40
and quality applicants. So that’s quality. That’s the Yeah. So you know, I could have posted before and we did and we were getting candidates, but not always quality candidates. But you know, the recruiters now I’m pretty sure that if I took resumes from them, I would see those same resumes either way.
Greg Toroosian 23:55
Yeah. You’d see Yeah, that says a lot especially actively looking candidates for sure. Yeah, I mean, the benefit of recruiters is they’re going to headhunt for you or do cold outreach to people that aren’t active on job boards and looking but in your point now candidates are just there’s a ton out there. The only other side to that is the admin aspect. Because I can only imagine I’ve spoken to a handful of companies that like, they’re like, we don’t know what to do. We’ve had to take the job posting down, because we have so many candidates, and now we have to go through them. Which if you don’t have someone in house to just focus on that is a lot of hours, right?
Stuart Posin 24:35
That my CEO and I are having all the time. How much of my time is worth it? That’s the time.
Greg Toroosian 24:39
Exactly.
Stuart Posin 24:40
Well, there’s no money out to me. But time is money. And so how much of it’s worth it and we’re constantly sort of having that conversation about how much time you’re spending now and how, you know, to find the right candidate, you want to interview enough people yet. At the same time, you don’t want to interview too many people because it wasn’t worth your time. So It’s,
Greg Toroosian 25:00
yeah, it’s a tough one. And that’s another good point that you make you know that interviewing enough people. If you have a role like full stack engineers and stuff like that, it’s definitely worth doing at least a handful of people, in my opinion, my humble opinion, and just from what I’ve seen internally and externally, yes, but then also when your role is pretty specific, and all business critical, I find what’s more useful, powerful is doing a really deep intake, very clear outline of what you’re looking for, why how that role is going to fit into the company now and in the future, etc, and build like this candidate avatar, what this person looks like. And when you find someone ticking those boxes, you can make a decision because the, you know, the cost benefit of looking at more people to just compare isn’t really going to make sense, right? If you’re thinking, Oh, we’ve already interviewed a great person. Now, let’s interview three more just to make sure that we’ve interviewed the best. Then coming back to them to offer sometimes doesn’t make the most sense.
Stuart Posin 26:04
there’s a push in a poll on that. Yeah. You know, let’s just say we were hiring for a role that we hadn’t hired for yet. Mm hmm. One of our employees has a friend or something. We shouldn’t interview just that friend.
Greg Toroosian 26:19
No, I agree.
Stuart Posin 26:21
We should have yin and yang and a comparison when other candidates and maybe the friend is going to get hired. But for that friend to succeed, you know, you really you owe them the opportunity to be compared
Greg Toroosian 26:35
hundred percent. Yeah. And to be clear on that, if it’s a role that’s brand new in our organization, you never hired anyone for definitely due diligence, have comparisons. But I always think you know, comparisons don’t have to be to that on site and final interview stage. You can have multiple phone video interviews with different candidates and you just know like, hey, they’re not ticking. The boxes aren’t the right fit or from our applicant pool or not. This is the most quality that we’re gonna see. And they’re already hitting it home. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.
Stuart Posin 27:07
On that point I tell candidates when I interview them, and I mean it, that we are emphasizing both, you know, cultural fit. And I know I know that XCLAIM is not unique in saying that in the startup world, but we are emphasizing cultural fit, as well as what we would think of engineering talent. I had a candidate that we interviewed and that I told the candidate that they wouldn’t go through in the process, and I got a pushback email or just asking for feedback. You know, why? And the candidate said, I thought you were emphasizing culture over tech. And I’m sure that we had great conversations and you know how to eat my words a little bit because the tech, I felt like it wasn’t enough right. And so, you know, it is a dance That we’re doing here in a few short hours trying to figure out who it is that we want to work with, because I say that I’m emphasizing that, and I mean it. But it’s all a gut reaction at the end of the day.
Greg Toroosian 28:13
Yeah, it’s a tough one with these remote interviews, you know, because you want to culturally feel like this person is a fit or culture add to your organization. And you can only do so much of that virtually. But if the role is going to ultimately end up being primarily virtual, or if the company is going to take more of a remote first aspect, then it’s fine. But you know, I, you know, I don’t envy you being in a place where you have to make hiring decisions, uncertain of are these people going to actually fit and Joe long term in the company or when we actually end up all under one roof one big open plan roof.
Stuart Posin 28:51
You know, when you’re five people, if you think about it this way, the sixth hire is 20% or 10% of the culture Right. So, still in 15, everybody we hire is moving the culture needle in some direction, or the cultural sphere. I’m not trying to say it’s bad just in a direction. And we just have to be aware of that.
Greg Toroosian 29:14
Yeah, definitely. Well, I think it’s great that you guys are so aware of it, and being so intentional with not only culture but your DNI at such a small scale in the company, because that’s when you really see it be embedded in the company’s DNA. You see it being spoken about, and you see people really living to those values as you grow. And that’s what’s important, right? The early employees, the founders, the execs speaking about it, like you said, being, even if you’re a CTO, being involved in all of those conversations is super important. Because your organization is going to be embedded in it. You’re going to talk about it, you’re going to hire that way as well. And be aware you know, in conversations in, in disagreements in whatever it may be that David versity of thought diversity of background diversity of mindset is super important.
Stuart Posin 30:07
All diverse diversity of experience as well. Hundred percent. You know, you brought up Dee Dee and I and I might have mentioned that earlier. You know, we are a company that wants to lean into it and have the conversation. You know, I’m a voice right now people don’t know anything about me other than my voice. But I back on the culture piece, we want people to feel like this is the place where you know, family maybe is a strong word, but they’re friends and people they want to work with. Yeah. And if everybody’s having these emotions around very sensitive issues, and we make a decision to not have it be a part of the workplace. We are not creating an environment where they’re even friends or people they want to work with. And, you know, we have a diverse team and we all have diverse experiences and I truly believe opening the conversation is an uncomfortable moment.
only makes us stronger.
Greg Toroosian 31:04
Definitely. Definitely. It’s it’s a very special time, shall I say, and pivotal time in the world right now, especially in the US and I have taken so much to heart and it’s made my mind go crazy with ways I can help in ways I can, in my small world of my little company doing talent acquisition and helping with advising companies and stuff, how I can help bring that conversation forward and help with change. And I and I have some great friends and colleagues that we’ve done advisory work with and stuff who head up social impact and things like that. So how can I help in that? And he got me thinking I did a post on LinkedIn a week or so ago about being your authentic self at work, right and what that means. And do companies really mean that when they say it Right, what it does and what it means to you most bring your authentic self to the workplace and truly be you. And I, you know, I’m still unsure and I still don’t know. Because the conversation that came out from it was very, very interesting, you know, people that have either felt very strongly themselves from doing it or have talked about companies saying it but not living up to it. Because if you are too authentically you, and I’m of the belief I want my work colleagues to be my friends at the end of the day, I have long term lifelong friends that I’ve met from work but I’m always the case like I go professional first. And you know, if I’m joining your company, or interviewing or meeting a new client, like I’m not gonna come out there like just being authentically 100% who I am, genuinely I’m talking about work first, right? But then after you’ve been with people for a while and you worked with people, obviously your your your natural colors are going to show and opinions and background and all of that, which is beautiful, and what’s important, but can you really lead with that? is always my, it’s just plays in the back of my head. I really want it to be.
Stuart Posin 33:11
Yeah, well, first of all, we have to acknowledge that when you’re interviewing, you’re selling yourself short. And clearly that is not who you normally are. Yes, at that point. And of course, the company is selling itself to the candidate they really want. So certainly in those first six 812 hours that we meet each other, we are not our authentic selves. And
Stuart Posin 33:40
I guess I would add on that we all have personas, right? We have our family persona and our college friend persona and our work persona. And we sort of intentionally or unintentionally are those people in those different worlds. Yep, it’s always weird when they collide.
Greg Toroosian 33:58
Christmas party
Greg Toroosian 34:00
Bring a friend.
Stuart Posin 34:04
So I do think it is important though, I think what people are trying to say is at work, you know, keep it professional, but you can show us who you are, I hope is what people are trying to say.
Greg Toroosian 34:18
Things So yeah,
Stuart Posin 34:20
I believe that you shouldn’t always be selling yourself. Yeah,
Greg Toroosian 34:26
yeah, don’t always be sad for sure that aspect, but then to that point, it’s like keep it professional, but people, you know, communicate very differently, disagree very differently, have very different perspectives on things and what I’ve seen, you know, for my own team members, for example, we sit in a whole department meeting. Again, I know I refer back to my current situation and there previously when I was internal, but when I headed up teams, you sit part of the whole people team or HR team discussion, have it open forum, blah, blah, blah, you come out and then I do a debrief with my team. And there’s more that comes out. I’m like, Well, why didn’t you say that? They’re like, Well, I think they’re either not going to take me seriously or they’re not gonna like the way that I my perspective on that. And it’s hard to coach through that sometimes if they don’t feel safe because they feel safe with you in your small bubble of a team, but they don’t feel safe as a company wide. Or you know, an all hands meeting raising their hand and talking to founders a certain way. And it’s like, they don’t want to be judged. I would never want to be judged or people dismiss your point because they’re like, Oh, that’s x person who grew up in this place or went to this school or look how they carry themselves or look at their tattoos, whatever it is, you know. And that’s the hard thing because you can still be professional and show your authentic self and be your authentic self but you don’t want to be limited professionally for that. And that’s more of like a I guess subconscious thing in the, in the workplace in the as managers and founders that you’re not always aware of you don’t
Stuart Posin 36:03
know. And there we can’t ignore the power dynamic that exists. Mm hmm. I mean, how could you write the leaders the one signing your paycheck so to see if the fear is real, right, you have a wife kids house mortgage bills. Horse. Yeah, I have a wife. I wasn’t reflecting on not really me, personally.
Stuart Posin 36:24
Yeah, yeah. Kid. If I decide to spout off and say how I really feel and
be careful Yeah, no, it’s true. Words are very
interesting right now in you know, even saying to somebody did you have a nice weekend is a is a potentially touchy thing. Because, you know, two weekends ago, we saw a lot of riots and looting. And could you possibly Have a nice weekend if you had a nice weekend? Are you too shallow you know, and so it is very
Greg Toroosian 36:58
insensitive to what’s going on. And what that means for everyone and as well as COVID and being in quarantine and your friends and family losing jobs and wherever it is, yeah. It’s a tough one.
Stuart Posin 37:14
It’s, it’s unusual.
Greg Toroosian 37:17
That’s for sure. 2020 has been strange.
Stuart Posin 37:21
is not I mean, not a meme just to, you know, maybe the second half of 2020 can be better. Yeah. I like the optimism. Share, but I like the people or at least contemplating that perhaps it can get better, you know? Yeah.
Greg Toroosian 37:35
And I saw another one that was talking about, well, maybe 2020 is exactly what we needed what we wanted, because people have either being too comfortable, too complacent, being okay with how things have been in terms of race and inequality, as well as our health and maybe some people neglecting family or thinking about home or what’s important and now forcing those conversations and Forcing that change and forcing everything that we’ve been putting off is maybe what everyone needed. And again, I love that optimism. And I love the perspective because it’s been painful. It’s been hard for so many people, and we can’t ignore that. And it still continues to be and that the change that’s been needed for so long, I feel hopeful that is coming in a lot of ways. And it’s up to people on their own, in their, in their families, in their social circles within in companies to do that, whatever it is, be that voice, put in those programs and make the change.
Stuart Posin 38:34
Amen. I mean, hope, hope is what gets us up in the morning. So I’m with you, I hope that it all leads to a better future. And maybe, maybe also somehow helps impact the earth in a positive way because we can’t forget about that. But you know, never know what the unintended consequences of things are. And maybe we we help Earth feel to normal Yeah,
Greg Toroosian 39:00
seeing seeing the change almost immediately that everyone being remote or everyone staying at home had on the environment was wild. It was very powerful for me to see you know, and even like, you know, we’re in LA. Now so caliber seeing the small above la disappear after a short period of time was crazy because I’ve never seen that before. It’s a dream Really? Yeah. Right. Well, I know we went off topic there slightly at the end, but I love these shows. I love these conversations as supernatural. Well, everyone we’ve been talking with Stuart Posin, CTO at XCLAIM. Stuart, where can people learn more about you and the company?
Stuart Posin 39:44
Our website is x-claim.com and you can find me I’m stuart@x-claim.com, obviously on LinkedIn and all those places.
Greg Toroosian 39:56
Perfect. Thanks to it. Thanks so much and Hopefully we’ll continue this conversation another time.
Stuart Posin 40:03
Thank you very much, Greg. I appreciate it.
Intro 40:08
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